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Date:	11/12/99 7:43:15 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, November 12 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1341<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Travshorts II<BR>
Re: Dustbin v2.0(?)<BR>
Re: alternate timeline short story<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re Tourism in the Marches<BR>
Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
Re: Marc Millers T5 Webpage<BR>
RE: Starlost<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
RE: Cultures<BR>
RE: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
RE: Fame (House Rule)<BR>
re: Sixth Frontier War!<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Looking for . . . .<BR>
Re: Looking for . . . .<BR>
Re: Looking for . . . .<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 23:45:58 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Travshorts II<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > On 9 Nov 99, at 15:08, Juliean Galak wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > At 08:31 AM 11/9/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
> > > > >Go ahead and laugh, human. The Electron Liberation Front will have it's<BR>
> > > > >revenge!<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > >ELF, eh? I thought they were limited to aquatic operations.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Mmm... Elf...  The other white meat....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I always thought they counted as vegetable matter for dietary purposes.<BR>
><BR>
> Only wood elves....<BR>
<BR>
Naw you use them there for lumber...<BR>
<BR>
It's the gray ones that are good eaten'.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:57:53 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dustbin v2.0(?)<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Question: Does Federation of Arden use or have access<BR>
> to jump capable ships? If so, presumably these are purchased<BR>
> abroad and shipped home, leading to our next question.<BR>
> How would they maintain jc ships if they no longer had access<BR>
> to type A starports(assuming it would be difficult to gain such<BR>
> access during the 5th FFW)? They would have had to have<BR>
> spent *alot* of credits stockpiling parts and building proper<BR>
> maintenance facilities. They would have had to done this in a<BR>
> dmz that would have been monitored by the 3I and ZC. This<BR>
> would have been a neat trick, if they did have jc ships.<BR>
<BR>
I don't have my copy of TCS ready-to-hand, but IIRC, military forces can<BR>
build starships without a Class A starport (I assume that they use<BR>
purpose-built military shipyards, unavailable to civilians).  That would<BR>
explain the Federation of Arden having jump-capable ships without a<BR>
Class A starport.  (If that rule isn't in TCS, it might be in _Pocket<BR>
Empires_.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 23:59:12 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: alternate timeline short story<BR>
<BR>
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
...<BR>
>Reminds me of an alternate timeline short story I read many years ago. The <BR>
>Nazi's arrive in New Delhi, and Ghandi is one of the VIPs who meet them. When <BR>
...<BR>
>violence campaign, and the last line of the story is the Nazi governor saying <BR>
>that Gandhi's mistake is in thinking that the Nazi's had a conscience....<BR>
<BR>
  Turtledove; it's in one of his anthologies, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 00:22:08 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
...<BR>
>Read "The Vang : the Military Form" (or "The Battlemaster")<BR>
<BR>
  In which case you let them call for help. As things develop, they<BR>
may realize just what it is that they've really asked for...<BR>
<BR>
  "Nuking the planetary surface is the only way to be sure..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 05:10:57 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
At 07:52 AM 11/11/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Howdy folks, time for a question.<BR>
><BR>
>Suppose you want to give your players the creeps?  Send<BR>
>shivers up their spine?  Worry the PCs to no end?<BR>
><BR>
>How do you set it up?  What factors do you have to think<BR>
>about?  Likely it is some version of the Enigma, with some<BR>
>of The Push in it, right?  But vague categories don't help me<BR>
>very much.  I'm asking for inspiration.<BR>
><BR>
>Government cover-ups; megacorps crossing the line into<BR>
>dark experiments; medicines that create horrors; rumors<BR>
>and uncertainty about the Ancients and the Solomani<BR>
>Hypothesis; the Imperial Department of War... how does<BR>
>one fit things like these together into a coherent scenario<BR>
>that starts innocuously and turns into a monster of a situation?<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks!<BR>
><BR>
>Rob<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Rob!<BR>
<BR>
        IMHO, the trick is BE PATIENT.  As a Ref, that is.  There is a real<BR>
tendency to want to get the players hip-to-neck-deep as quick as possible.<BR>
It doesn't work, because the players don't have to think.<BR>
<BR>
        I ran a concept game like this in Cyberpunk sometime ago...  I used<BR>
the "Countdown" concept...  As in "10, 9, 8..."  Each digit represents the<BR>
number of adventures/ scenarios between those which have something to do<BR>
with the Grand Conspiracy.  Now, I tend to run two-or-three session<BR>
adventures;  adjust timings to taste.  In Traveller, for my first FTF TNEC<BR>
game, I ran _Shadows_ as part of the Conspiracy.  The Scout took some<BR>
samples of the flora that was growing in that horrendous atmosphere.  Took<BR>
'em back to the local Scout Base for analysis.  The took one look at them,<BR>
their logbooks and siezed the logs, recorder data, samples, everything.<BR>
When the Scout protested, they reactivated her, ORDERED the turn-over of the<BR>
material, paid her a month and then deactivated her...  <BR>
<BR>
        She was steamed, but nothing like that happened for the next 30<BR>
gaming sessions, so she forgot about it.  Until they got hired to to<BR>
security work at an archeological dig that got over-run by UN Colonial<BR>
Marines.  And then they all forgot about that after nothing more came of it<BR>
over the next 25-ish sessions....  We played 4 to 5 times a month, so it was<BR>
about three years of play before the group split up due to some very<BR>
unfortunate Real Life happenings...  By that time they were getting the idea<BR>
that something was Real Wrong and the UN was Up To Something, but had no<BR>
idea what.  I figure one more "incident" and the group would have actively<BR>
started trying to figure out what was going on.<BR>
<BR>
        Using the 10-9-8... approach, the pace of the involuntary<BR>
involvement of the players subltly begins to accelerate.  Note that any<BR>
scenarios resulting from the players investigating don't count towards the<BR>
count, as it were.... these are key plot points that reveal and/ or expose<BR>
pieces and players in the Grand Conspiracy to the PCs.  Anything else they<BR>
get into voluntarily just cements into thier heads that they are on the<BR>
right/ wrong track.<BR>
<BR>
        It has worked fairly well for me.  If you try it, please let me know<BR>
what success you had with it.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 01:00:03 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
>OK, lets turn this into something practical. I'd like to ask the TML this<BR>
>question:<BR>
>If you lived in the Marches and were planning a vacation with money and time<BR>
>no object what would you want to go and see?<BR>
><BR>
Depends on whether I had Sh**loads of money or not...<BR>
IMTU, there is a pastime for the filthy rich... munting the Wypoc Dragon<BR>
(which has become something of a local gaming legend in Anchorage). I was<BR>
rolling encounter tables for Wypoc (J2 from Regina), and came up with a 44<BR>
Ton Flying Predator, which, under MT, has a good chance of being able to<BR>
hurt an air/raft. Since Wypoc has a corrosive atmosphere, the Dragon is<BR>
armored, violent, and hunts by metalic-ion sniffing... Use Big Guns, heavy<BR>
environment suits, and remember: While you hunt it, it hunts you!<BR>
<BR>
In fact, I came up with rather large critters for Wypoc... one which shoots<BR>
"Spines" from it's snout (Grazer), another that is a major armored but<BR>
harmless scavenger (A2 F3), and the Dragon. somewhere I have the tables...<BR>
<BR>
For beauty, there's Psaydi, or (umm, drawing a blank, the planet with the<BR>
skymelon vinyards in TTA). Regina has the Old Capitol, plus lots of<BR>
academic and educational resources (IMTU, U of Regina, Regni is one of the<BR>
largest, best equipped research facilities in the marches), plus all the<BR>
attractions of a major trade center. Regina is also still the Cultural<BR>
Capitol of the Marches IMTU, so Regina is a good bet.<BR>
<BR>
Mora has the new capitol, the sector Duchess, and constant noble tourism...<BR>
the social circut on Mora starts on 002 and ends on 355... Commoners tend<BR>
to avoid it. Mora University is also a major bit. Depot/Spinward Marches is<BR>
known for displays on military history, plus the sector's Imperial Naval<BR>
Acadamy, with it's parades, airshows, and other pomp.<BR>
<BR>
There is a Disneyland equivalent somewhere near Regina IMTU.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 03:31:39 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Group A, seeing themselves as the representatives of the groups <BR>
> in question might just think of Group B as being 'elitest' or <BR>
> even 'racist'. There could be some very interesting interaction <BR>
> and even direct and covert conflict (of the physical variety). <BR>
<BR>
Whoops, left some words out. Try this...<BR>
<BR>
Group A, seeing themselves as the true representatives of <BR>
the organizations they spring from, might just think of Group B <BR>
as being 'elitest' or even 'racist'. There could be some very <BR>
interesting interaction and even direct and covert conflict (of <BR>
the physical variety). <BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:31:12 EST<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Marc Millers T5 Webpage<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/10/99 3:23:29 PM Central Standard Time, <BR>
mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The problem is a chunk of binary data  >><BR>
<BR>
The page has been re-loaded (frankly, there's not much there yet); it's a <BR>
work on progress.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:31:08 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Starlost<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> One thought: Bulkheads. When one *really* must take a dump. <gd&r><BR>
<BR>
LOL<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 03:38:26 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 11/11/99 9:06 PM, frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> First off, you have to convince the players that you are willing to kill<BR>
> them.<BR>
> If neccessary, that means doing so, preferrably in extremely graphic and<BR>
> detailed goriness.<BR>
<BR>
Might be a good idea to require secondary (or even tertiary!) characters.<BR>
This would allow you to pick them off and thin it down to a core group.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:44:24 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
<BR>
"David J. Golden" wrote:<BR>
> That would be Tienanmen Square, where the PLA later turned machine<BR>
> guns on the crowds ...<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I know  :-(<BR>
<BR>
The point was, he actually stopped the tank by just standing there. The<BR>
fact that hundreds of demonstrants were gunned down later doesn't change<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: How the ####### do you stop a grav tank this way? I figure it<BR>
could be done with a small grav car, but wouldn't it be possible to<BR>
drive the tank slowly into contact with the car and then slowly move<BR>
forward (pushing the car in front of the tank). The tank has a<BR>
significantly stronger drive, after all.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 03:42:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 11/11/99 9:08 PM, Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> If you lived in the Marches and were planning a vacation with money and time<BR>
> no object what would you want to go and see?<BR>
<BR>
I hear the belts of Glisten are outstanding. But with appropriate funding,<BR>
I'd stealth out a starship and poke my nose into some of the more mysterious<BR>
"Red Zones". ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:43:19 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Cultures<BR>
<BR>
>If Earthship Ark and Red Dwarf had a fight, who would win?  :)<BR>
<BR>
Was Earthship Ark armed?  The Red  Dwarf  may  have  been  armed,<BR>
certainly one of its ship's boats (Star Bug) *was*  armed.  Also,<BR>
the Red Dwarf was rebuilt practicly from scratch  by  nanites  in<BR>
the last season ... they could repair battle/collision damage.  I<BR>
think the winner would be Red Dwarf (unless the crew cock it up!)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Proverb: Foolish are those who play Twister on the stairs."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:10:11 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
> > Ob Trav: Is there an official rememberance of the fallen dead<BR>
> > IYTU's? IMTU, it's generally done at day 180. Not quite an<BR>
> > imperial holiday (I only have 2 of those IMTU- Holiday and<BR>
> > the Emperor's B-Day), but the official day of rememberance.<BR>
><BR>
> I would doubt it very much. It should be remembered that our<BR>
> own cultures focus on a day of rememberance is a direct product<BR>
> of the most traumatic war in history (note the days choosen).<BR>
> Before the 1st WW there were no specific national days of<BR>
> rememberance. And the 3rd Imperium has never suffered anything<BR>
> even remotely as traumatic as the 1st WW.<BR>
<BR>
Good point.  However, this doesn't preclude planetary equivalents<BR>
in places like Efate or Jewell  remembering  the  fallen  of  the<BR>
Frontier Wars.<BR>
<BR>
And I can also see a combination "rememberance day"  and  protest<BR>
on Terra by a minority  of  loyal  Solomani.  Perhaps  a  funeral<BR>
march past the enterence to an Imperial Marine  barracks  with  a<BR>
coffin drapped with the Solomani  flag,  on  Invasion  Day.  Some<BR>
years this would pass off without incident, others there could be<BR>
stones thrown at the barracks, and an Imperial flag burned.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"If the ship is sinking - maybe the rats have a point."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:17:53 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Fame (House Rule)<BR>
<BR>
Peter Scarrott wrote:<BR>
> This is a new rule that I am experimenting with IMTU, at the<BR>
> moment it is being playtested and I would be very interested in<BR>
> any comments.  If anyone has experimented with a similar rule I<BR>
> am interested in their experiences.  This rule is for my TNE<BR>
> campaign but could be ported into any system/campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds a bit like "Renown" in 2300AD.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:24:01 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: re: Sixth Frontier War!<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au asked:<BR>
<BR>
>anyone else want to contribute to<BR>
> "Traveller Things That Make You Go Hmmm"?<BR>
<BR>
"Properly equipping the Imperial Marines is bad for morale."<BR>
<BR>
"Jump-4 X-boats, the information conspiracy."<BR>
<BR>
"Garden worlds are worse places to live than hellholes. Discuss."<BR>
<BR>
"Allowing small groups of adventurers to use battledress, fusion guns<BR>
 and factor T spinal mounts reduces piracy and increases the safety<BR>
 of Imperial Citizens."<BR>
<BR>
"Small groups of adventurers should be required to hold unlimited<BR>
 public liability insurance."<BR>
<BR>
"Is interstellar space law Level 0?"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:54:59 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
> "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at> bangs out with his toes:<BR>
> [snip]<BR>
>  >> >Does anyone have any firm anti-violence groups active in their<BR>
>  >> >Traveller universe? What d they do? How does the Imperium<BR>
>  >> >see them?<BR>
> [snip]<BR>
>  >During an old FTF adventure, I introduced a pacifist movement<BR>
>  >following (partly) in spirit Yukio Mishima's ideas, vaguely linked<BR>
>  >to buddist religion.<BR>
<BR>
> Mishima linked with a pacifist movement?<BR>
<BR>
As I said, *partly* based on him, *in spirit.* <grin><BR>
<BR>
>  That thought should cause seismic activity in Japan!<BR>
<BR>
Not really. At least, didn't sound strange to my japanese <BR>
friends over here <grin>. Mishima linked with *western* pacifism, <BR>
that would certainly be strange. But Mishima style passed through <BR>
buddhism and some thousand years of evolution gives you the above.<BR>
<BR>
>  The man had his own private army & thought that <BR>
>the Emperor should take back the reins of government and rearm the <BR>
>nation.<BR>
 <BR>
The aim of the Private army was to die for, not to kill for, the <BR>
emperor. That was the basic spirit I was referring to, not their <BR>
political objectives.<BR>
<BR>
> His own suicide was an act he had been rehearsing his entire adult <BR>
> life.<BR>
>  Perhaps as an atonement for failing the physical to become a Devine <BR>
> Wind pilot during the Great Pacific War.<BR>
<BR>
You or me got something wrong with the japanese mindset. AFAIK, being <BR>
able to plot his suicide for such a long time is a *far* more <BR>
important achievement than passing a physical test. In fact, <BR>
Insurance companies bet that you can't plot it for more tha one or <BR>
two years.<BR>
<BR>
>  >An Army without more weapons that those used for<BR>
>  >ritual suicide, willing to die but not to kill, with the firm belief<BR>
>  >that nobody has the right to take one life, except the own. They were<BR>
>  >called "Life Fighters" or "Mishimans."<BR>
 <BR>
> Remember that Mishima used his sword on several unarmed soldiers prior to <BR>
> his suicide. He certainly was willing to fight & kill others.  His own <BR>
> suicide was an act of grand theatre.<BR>
<BR>
The above is IMTU, and, as I said, *partly* based on Mishima. YMMV. <BR>
As for a suicide being theatre, I won't comment on this. I am sure <BR>
you realized what you said right after sending it. He *died.*<BR>
<BR>
> Given all that, I think the concept is certainly interesting, and the name <BR>
> could be the result of cultural drift and historical revisionism.<BR>
<BR>
That was more the idea. The fact is, Mishima's aestethics provide a <BR>
good thing to hang on for game purposes. As for the philosophical <BR>
implications of his movement, well, that's too off-topic <grin><BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:15:15 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: How the ####### do you stop a grav tank this way? I figure it<BR>
> could be done with a small grav car, but wouldn't it be possible to<BR>
> drive the tank slowly into contact with the car and then slowly move<BR>
> forward (pushing the car in front of the tank). The tank has a<BR>
> significantly stronger drive, after all.<BR>
You chain your legs (long chain) to a fixed spot on the floor, <BR>
jump on the marching grav tank from a grav vehicle, and chain your <BR>
arms to the tank... <grin><BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:20:00 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
> I was sort of waiting for someone to mention this.  I never thought of<BR>
> Mishima Yukio-sensei as a pacifist.<BR>
 <BR>
> Carlos, where did you get this idea?<BR>
<BR>
IMHO, the courage to actively kill oneself (and Mishima is <BR>
the greatest exponent of this, all times, all places, full stop) plus <BR>
the idea of "willing to die for" just claimed to be coupled with <BR>
pacifism. As I said, the "Mishimans" IMTU were *partly* based in the <BR>
spirit of Mishima-sama. Never said *he* was a pacifist, specially in <BR>
the modern, western-derived sense of the term. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, IMTU, YMMV...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:33:08 -0500<BR>
From: dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com<BR>
Subject: Looking for . . . .<BR>
<BR>
Hello All!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      I'm looking for "The Spinward Marches Campaign". Does anyone know where I<BR>
      can find a copy of this classic Traveller book?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Dennis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:55:41 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for . . . .<BR>
<BR>
>       I'm looking for "The Spinward Marches Campaign". Does anyone know where I<BR>
>       can find a copy of this classic Traveller book?<BR>
<BR>
No, but if you happen to find two copies, tell me <grin><BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:05:19 -0600<BR>
From: "heath" <mandor@inx.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for . . . .<BR>
<BR>
there is 3 for sale at ebay right now here is the links:<BR>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=194780787<BR>
<BR>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=196234474<BR>
<BR>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=195586194<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 7:33 AM<BR>
Subject: Looking for . . . .<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Hello All!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>       I'm looking for "The Spinward Marches Campaign". Does anyone know<BR>
where I<BR>
>       can find a copy of this classic Traveller book?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Thanks,<BR>
><BR>
> Dennis<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:17:37 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:08:28 +1000, Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, maybe I'm being a bit harsh on them. Other sectors of the Imperium<BR>
>certainly have things to see, like the cities on Core/Capital, the ringworld<BR>
>and that star system that orbits in a Kempler(?) rosette. But the Spinward<BR>
>Marches is strangely bereft of, hmmm, how shall I put this - whimsy.<BR>
<BR>
I've heard people mention a ringworld in traveller several times but I<BR>
have never seen anything in canon. Can someone tell me where it is<BR>
located and if it's canon?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:27:57 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/11/99 11:39:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
tlmixon@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I see some interesting conflict between some of these groups... >><BR>
<BR>
Possibly, but I invision veterans belonging to multiple groups. Here's an <BR>
extreme example:<BR>
<BR>
Lt. Col. Jean Dubois, the Duke of Glisten (quiz: where did I get this name <BR>
from?), Imperial Army Drop Troops, retired. He has won the SEH. He served in <BR>
the marches during the FFW.<BR>
<BR>
He would belong to the SEH Ass., the retired Officers association, the Nobles <BR>
Veterans Association, the Veterans of the Peerage, the Imperial Army <BR>
association, the Imperial Legion, the veterans of Imperial wars assoc.,  the <BR>
veterans of the FFW society, and the Solomani-Imperial Veterans Society.<BR>
<BR>
As much as members on this list talk about rivalries between different <BR>
branches of service (sometimes violent ala fisticuffs...), from my <BR>
observations veterans respect each other, and are more likely to have <BR>
conflicts with civilians. As an example, they could attack civilian <BR>
authorities during the hard times period that have cut off pensions <BR>
(especially if said civilian is supporting a different faction...).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:30:33 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
<BR>
> From:          j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
<BR>
> I've heard people mention a ringworld in traveller several times but I<BR>
> have never seen anything in canon. Can someone tell me where it is<BR>
> located and if it's canon?<BR>
<BR>
It is in the Hinterworlds, it is called Leenitakot, and it is owned <BR>
by a minor, xenophobic race.<BR>
<BR>
This is from my own personal notes, but it is based on material <BR>
appeared in Challenge 39 and around it (I might have added some bit). <BR>
So, it is canon as far as Challenge is considered canon.<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Leenitakot (Hinterworlds 1432)<BR>
<BR>
 The mainworld in the Leenitakot system in the Hinterworlds (trailing<BR>
 and outside of the Third Imperium) is a Chirper world, owned by an<BR>
 enigmatic race called "Outcasts of the Whispering Sky," or<BR>
 "Stalkers," which governs a small, subsector-sized interstellar<BR>
 state. Within the limits of the Leenitakot system lies a ringworld<BR>
 apparently built by the Ancients. Imperial and Solomani<BR>
 archaeologists have been negotiating expedition rights for decades,<BR>
 but to date only four have been granted by the Stalkers, two <BR>
Imperial and two Solomani. The results of these four expeditions have <BR>
puzzled the experts. The inner surface of the ringworld has a surface <BR>
area of 25.000 times that of Terra. It surrounds a star of class M1 V <BR>
Star at a distance of less than 30 Million km, which would make it<BR>
 inhabitable and even pleasant if it had a standard atmosphere.<BR>
 However, the ringworld is nothing more than a narrow band (less than<BR>
 100.000 km wide), without soil, atmosphere or any provisions to<BR>
 sustain life. It has been speculated that the ringworld was<BR>
 unfinished when the Final War started.<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:41:02 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:30:33 +0000, "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"<BR>
<carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> From:          j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
><BR>
>> I've heard people mention a ringworld in traveller several times but I<BR>
>> have never seen anything in canon. Can someone tell me where it is<BR>
>> located and if it's canon?<BR>
><BR>
>It is in the Hinterworlds, it is called Leenitakot, and it is owned <BR>
>by a minor, xenophobic race.<BR>
<BR>
THANKS! Both for the info and for changing the subject line. (I meant<BR>
to but forgot.)<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1341<BR>
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